Pedal Sets

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Pedal Sets

Postby SpyderMike » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:02 pm

Looking at what is available now and wondering what you all are using/recommending. I have a stock VW setup that I added a CNC hydraulic clutch too. I am looking for something a bit more racing inspired thatlooks like it belongs. I use remote reservoirs and I will keep the CNC hydraulic clutch actuation.

Any thought/opinions?

I know people used to use Neal, but a quick search finds them no longer in biz? Am I right?
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Re: Pedal Sets

Postby Larry Jowdy » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:51 am

Neal was a family run business and a long time ago, some kind of a dispute arose causing a family member to split and form CNC. If I remember correctly Bill Neal is out of business.

By the way, when I had my Spyder I used Tilton pedals

Link to CNC
https://www.cncbrakes.com/

Link to Tilton
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/til- ... rkQAvD_BwE
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Re: Pedal Sets

Postby SpyderMike » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:01 pm

Thanks Larry.

Bummer on Neal...they were popular in the day as I recall.

I have the CNC hydraulic clutch mod done to my original 1966 VW cast pedal set. I also have a lame sloppy roller throttle which I despise. I think I will have bulkhead hole issues if I go with something like a Tilton...then I am into reinforcing the bulkhead and re-drilling. Not sure that plays well with me.

In my recent research I have come to realize that the later beetle pedal sets have a built in pedal hinge area and should fit into the same tunnel holes I have. That and some improvements to the pedal assembly might give me what I am looking for - smooth and tight pedals. I found these folks www.classicbugparts.com that seem to address my issues.

We will see...
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Re: Pedal Sets

Postby SpyderMike » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:09 pm

Here is my current old pedal set:
a1.jpg


By the way, the clutch is rather soft...it works fine, but the clutch action is easy and I need most of the stroke to actuate it. I guess one thing I need to do is verify the free stroke at the actuation arm. But even when I get to the point of actuation, there is a soft feel. Not sure how else to describe it.

I noticed that back in 2002 I installed the CNC hydraulic setup and that included translucent plastic hose. Do you all think that hose material could be causing the softness or is it the sizing of master vs slave. It is not something I really need to rectify unless using the plastic line is a reliability issue, but I would like to understand it.

That 1980s carpet has to go...
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Re: Pedal Sets

Postby Kris Courtney » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:36 pm

does the titan pedal set give you more room than the cnc set.just wondering.
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Re: Pedal Sets

Postby Larry Jowdy » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:23 pm

When I installed the Tilton, I had to do a lot of brake line plumbing mainly because I installed a pressure regulator between the front and back brakes. I wear size 13 shoes and had no problem with the pedals.
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Re: Pedal Sets

Postby EEricson » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:20 am

Plastic line in the hydraulic system should only be from the reservoir to the master. There's no pressure there. I think if you plumbed any into the pressurized system it would inflate or blow out.

Re pedals. I got some (I think) CNC dune buggy pedals with my kit and made new pedal arms to look Spydery.Image https://alongcameaspyder.wordpress.com/2018/01/25/more-details/That was easy. The gas pedal was not so much: https://alongcameaspyder.wordpress.com/2018/02/11/gas-pedal/

Image

Only then did I discover that the stock holes in the bulkhead were misaligned for what I was doing. There was no going back. https://alongcameaspyder.wordpress.com/2018/02/04/back-to-the-pedals/

Huge PITA and only fun if you really enjoy fabrication without a net. I'd do it again now that I know how, but would not attempt for the first time now that I know what's required. If that makes sense? In other words, if I knew going into it what was involved, I would not have started.

Recommend the best Type 1 system you can find. I believe (not sure) one or two of the Speedster guys got https://www.classicbugparts.com/x-celerator-speed-wheel-kit-1/ and like 'em.
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Re: Pedal Sets

Postby Carlos G » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:21 am

What Ed said about the plastic line. If it is plumbed on the pressure side, it's inflating and not transmitting all the pressure to the slave cylinder causing the softness and you having to use the full stroke to get it to work.
If not, then maybe there is some air in the system.
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Re: Pedal Sets

Postby SpyderMike » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:10 pm

1.jpg


very frustrating that this site logs me off every time I try to post a picture or submit a post. Six times now. What up wit dat?

Please disregard everything ugly in this photo as most, if not all, of it will be taken care of on this update.

Using plastic tubing for clutch lines is okay as the pressures are not high like a brake setup...maybe around 200psi or less from what I can find. I like the thought that it could be air in the line...easy enough to bleed and check first...thanks for the prompt.

I was building a plane around the time of the Spyder hydraulic clutch mod (2002) and may have gotten the idea from the plastic brake lines used in that kit. I got the CNC hydraulic clutch kit from McKenzies back then and they may have supplied it...not sure. The steel braided flex lines are plastic tubing inside too. Everything has worked fine...just a soft feel to it.

I hear you though, plastic might give a softer feel due to tubing wall flex. I have no problem changing to aluminum tubing...I probably still have the flaring tools and a lot of the AN fittings from the plane build. Has anyone used Versatube 3003 for this line? What diameter lines are you all using for the clutch? -3?

Thanks,
Mike
Last edited by SpyderMike on Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pedal Sets

Postby SpyderMike » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:25 pm

Doing some more research into plastics, I am pretty sure I used Nylaflow products...these nylon tubes are made for hydraulic applications with operating pressures of 250-625 psi.

https://www.nylatronshapes.com/images/n ... _flyer.pdf
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Re: Pedal Sets

Postby DannyP » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:24 am

It is more probable that your master and slave are all full of blackened fluid(full of water from the air). I replaced my master($40 Wilwood 5/8" piston) and cleaned out the slave. I replaced the two O-rings in the slave and it all works fine now. I just have standard metal metric brake line all the way back and a short braided piece to the slave.
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Re: Pedal Sets

Postby sjgharib » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:54 pm

I used -3 AN fittings for my clutch and associated aluminum hard line (3/16)...
Never thought of using the Nylaflow stuff... but it is awesome - this is not your garden variety home-depot tubing!
Just make sure it's protected from heat and abrasion.

As for pedals, I used the wilwood pedals, floor mounted, individual single for the clutch and a balance bar double for the brakes.

https://www.wilwood.com/Pedals/PedalLis ... t%20Pedals

Then I fabricated my own throttle pedal... at the time I don't think they had the three pedal setup (that seems the easy way to go!).

The nice part about the wilwood setup is that the master cylinders attach directly to the frame of the pedal pivot (I think as do the tiltons), so in terms of holes you just need clearance for the penetrations, no real structural rigidity needed in the bulkhead itself. So you can open it way up, get everything situated, and then make a sheet coverplate with the right holes to fill in the gaps.
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Re: Pedal Sets

Postby SpyderMike » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:40 pm

While messing with the pedal set prior to removal, I see that I am losing some clutch pushrod movement due to the heim joint I have on the end. That uses up the first part of the stroke. I think I first need to replace the plastic with a hard line, flush and bleed and see if that makes much of a difference. Then I need to see about the rod end - to see if I can come up with a solution that gives me more stroke. Otherwise, I suppose I could enlarge the M/C to push more fluid with the reduced stroke. I am going to mess with this setup before cutting any bulkhead metal. I have found a few solutions for updating the VW pedal set - one being http://www.pedalwerks.com and the other being http://www.classicbugparts.com . Going this route for now.

Really like the look of the Wilwood separates....thanks for the suggestion.
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Re: Pedal Sets

Postby DannyP » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:47 pm

Trust me, take it apart and get all the gunk out. Just flushing won't get it clean enough. Clean both the master and the slave.
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Re: Pedal Sets

Postby SpyderMike » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:56 pm

Understood. Wilco.
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