New owner with unbuilt Thunder Ranch

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Re: New owner with unbuilt Thunder Ranch

Postby EEricson » Wed Feb 12, 2020 7:33 pm

So has anyone incorporated a proper Bug thermostat and engine warm-up flaps into their Spyder build? Because I got an idea...
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Re: New owner with unbuilt Thunder Ranch

Postby albaran » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:39 am

Not sure what you are envisioning but If you are running a remote oil cooler, many of us have thermostatically controlled oil bypass units that routs the oil back to the engine until it hits a certain temperature and then it sends it through the cooler.
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Re: New owner with unbuilt Thunder Ranch

Postby RS-60 mark » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:40 am

I have a standard (un-flapped) doghouse fan shroud with standard doghouse oil cooler (plus a remote fan oil cooler and thermostat by-pass on similar theme as albaran posted above). From a parked-for-weeks cold start with 45*-50* ambient (like a few days ago, in the morning after a night in the 30's), it doesn't take that long to warm up (without so-called flaps). I figure good-to-go warm up is after the oil temp gauge need leaves the peg (at 100* on my gauge). Usually it is more than that before I leave because I'm doing other things while it is warming up, like cleaning windshield, California dusting, etc. Even at 45*, once underway, the oil gets up to full operating temp reasonably quick, without flaps. And, if you are late to a party, it's not the end-of-the world to simply start it cold and take-off on a rolling warm-up, as long as you take it easy until temps come up.
I don't think "flaps" have any function related to cold-starting, and hardly any intended purpose toward quicker warm-up. I think "flaps" are more intended for dealing with really cold (below freezing) driving conditions, like a standard bug sedan might be anticipated to encounter. Thus the "flaps" come into play because the ambient air is too cold to allow oil temps to ever achieve or maintain operating temp during normal driving. Few us take our spyders on winter ski trips or tundra treks. In my experience at the threshold of my comfort, 40* driving is not too cold to easily maintain oil operating temps without assists like "flaps".
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Re: New owner with unbuilt Thunder Ranch

Postby EEricson » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:19 pm

Guys I've got a DTM shroud with the oil cooler integral.

I'm also making a full belly pan in the rear, to separate the hot air from the cool. My idea is to make a flap somewhere in the system of ducts that fit over the exhaust pipes so that, on cold start, some of that hot air is redirected back into the engine bay, to be grabbed by the fan and sent through the fins again, etc., to aid in engine warm-up.

Today I made the stub-out that will tie the oil cooler duct to the passenger side exhaust pipe cover.

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I'm thinking about putting a flap between these two such that, when the engine is cold and the thermostat is short, the flap will allow the oil cooler air to blow back under the clam and maybe draw some air up from the right side exhaust pipe area. Would just be a matter of obtaining a good thermostat, mounting it under the driver's side cylinders, running the cable out and under the trans and making some kind of bracket to hold the end.

And, of course, fabricating the flap and housing, with some sort of mild spring in it so if the thermostat fails the flap closes.

Thanks for any insights.
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Re: New owner with unbuilt Thunder Ranch

Postby egrant5329 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:19 am

Unless they have changed the design you won't be running the flaps in a DTM. Also the DTM uses the larger Type-IV oil cooler, but you will still probably want a thermostatically controlled auxiliary oil cooler like what Albaran posted a picture of.

I have a DTM and have taken it on and off a few times. I keep going back to my stock shroud. My shroud has the flaps in it, but the exhaust J-tube is in the way of the thermostat mount, so I can't run my thermostat. Both the old Beck style exhaust and the Vintage style 4-2-1 block the thermostat mount.

I can't wait to see you pan completed.
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Re: New owner with unbuilt Thunder Ranch

Postby EEricson » Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:04 pm

OK I decided not to do this but for the sake of clarity: My idea was to use the thermostat to open a flap that would allow warmed air (drawn around and past the hot 3-4 exhaust tubes) to be drawn up under the clam by the air stream venting from the oil cooler inside the shroud, so it could be blown back through the fan in a loop to aid warmup. It was not an idea to install flaps inside the shroud to deflect air away or deny air to the cylinders and heads as in the OG design.

Basically a simple, spring loaded butterfly valve similar to what you see somewhere in every HVAC system on the planet.

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This would work in theory but more experienced heads have persuaded me that the likely benefit would not outweigh the added work and working complexity in this application.

And that's before I worked out a mounting system for the proposed thermostat, which I had vaguely envisioned going under the 1-2 cylinders and attaching to this stud:

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Re: New owner with unbuilt Thunder Ranch

Postby albaran » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:00 am

I see what you are trying to do but in all my experience in screwing around with shrouds, fans, and oil coolers, I would guess that the effect on a quicker warmup would be negligible using the flap system. Warming the oil will work better than warming the air for that purpose. Believe me, I have tried a lot of concepts on my car that I ended up scrapping so I know where you are coming from.
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Re: New owner with unbuilt Thunder Ranch

Postby RS-60 mark » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:00 pm

Yes, what albaran said, for the reasons albaran said. The heat of combustion will warm the engine (and oil) more efficiently and faster than the negligible effect of a gentle breeze of marginally warmed air.
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Re: New owner with unbuilt Thunder Ranch

Postby EEricson » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:28 am

Got it.

On a related subject, it has been suggested to me that detailed plans for my rear underpan system may be of interest to other Spyder owners. I'm willing to make a set of serious drawings, templates and instructions if there's enough interest in purchasing same.

It should be noted, however, that my mufflers are mounted in a weird place compared to most guys' running this exhaust.

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Most of the systems I've seen have the mufflers flipped the other way with the outlets to the outside, and longer pipes merging them at the exhaust tip. The mufflers themselves are most often tilted down slightly toward the outside edge, like
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—And nobody I know has anything as proper looking as
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which would be the easiest to build a pan around.

So what I could do is give precise measurements for what I build, with a caveat about boxing the mufflers. The tricky part seems to be the front half of it anyway, particularly with Type 1 engines and their bloody side-existing exhaust pipes.
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