Promised 12 mo, still waiting at 54?

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Promised 12 mo, still waiting at 54?

Postby RS-60 mark » Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:48 am

Here is an interesting story with more than a hint of familiarity.

Please, this is not the start of a flamer, just an FYI.

SAW (Specialty Autoworks) is considered an \"artiest\" in the 356 replica world, who has a history of breaking delivery promises after payment is made.
http://www.wate.com/global/story.asp?s=13045400

http://www.specialtyauto.com/
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Re: Promised 12 mo, still waiting at 54?

Postby prototype4 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:04 pm

RS-60 mark wrote:Here is an interesting story with more than a hint of familiarity.

Please, this is not the start of a flamer, just an FYI.

SAW (Specialty Autoworks) is considered an "artiest" in the 356 replica world, who has a history of breaking delivery promises after payment is made.
http://www.wate.com/global/story.asp?s=13045400

http://www.specialtyauto.com/

Pregnant in the transaction is the assembler attitude that, "If you could afford to pony up that kind of money for a toy, then you really didnt need it. I did so, oh well.....". The reality is that regardless of: surrendering the money at gunpoint, being pickpocketed unawares, or willingly handing it over in misrepresented confidence, it is all theft [-X . A legnthy, expensive, trial and jail time for the assembler is warranted. Repayment is a given.
Court is ajourned. [-(
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Postby Zack » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:42 pm

I built a Factory five Cobra for a client, two years ago when I had my shop/ hot rods and muscle cars running , anyway, I order all parts with my own money to run faster the project, took me few months to get it back but that was ok . I trust the client and I that is how I understand... the customer comes first...the money he will be paying me is not mine, is for parts, I can't use for something else, after the car finished...any leftover was mine... not all the way around. in the end we built a car, got some money and made a friend in the process.
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Postby fastspyder » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:14 pm

WOW !!! Zack... =D>

Do you mind if i print it and put those words in a frame.... :D
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Postby Goofycat » Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:08 pm

Another horror story. The guy is guilty of nothing other than fraud and should be jailed, after which he should be made to pay back the money. BTW, the problem also exists on the Left Coast. My advice: Don't pay anything until the car is finished, and make sure a contract is made up and signed by the builder with prior review by your lawyer to make sure the contract is legal, binding and complete. If either you or the builder reject this idea, shop for another builder or look for a pre-owned car. If you give the builder just a check and a handshake before the car is started, you may well end up looking like this: :( or this: [:(!]
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Postby prototype4 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:06 pm

Goofman, I agree that payment in full is foolhardy. I also think that the idea of the assembler fronting the costs and requiring full payment afterward is also a non-starter. If this were tried, the assembler takes the risk that the buyer will not be fickle, not incarcerated, not layed off, not called out of the country, not declare bankruptcy; you get the idea. And if the assembler complains about non-payment, a perverted \"means test\" just like the one I mentioned in my last post will be used by the buyer.
\"If you the assembler have the money to cover the wages , materials, and machining costs, you arent finanially hurting. Just sell the car built to my specs and recoup your money. Its a great design and should sell easy. You doubt my word? Why would I lie?\"I was intendeing to buy it, remember?
or alternately \".........if it doesn't sell, its because you built an obvious pile of junk. You don't expect me to pay for that, do you?'
Either way, the implicit assumption is the assembler does not NEED to be paid by the buyer who either doesn't have or NEEDS the money more, since the assembler could and did front the costs.
Seems far-fetched? These are the kinds of jaded sophist arguements that established the idea of court-ordered child support, for example. And no ethical man honestly argues that child care is a luxury.
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Postby Goofycat » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:07 pm

Proto, I think I understand what you are saying, and you are right. As for the assembler (builder), how he conducts business with the buyer is entirely up to him, and his agreeing to build a car with no money down is one of the risks of doing business. If the assembler wants to form his own contract to indemnify him in case the customer changes his mind, he has every right to do so. If he wishes to require an unreasonably large down payment, it's fine with me, but if I were a buyer, I would not buy the car. From a builders' standpoint, I would not start a build without a money commitment from the buyer. It all has to with the ratio of financial risk to be assumed by the buyer and the seller, and the fact that if each wishes to protect himself, a contract is in order so that each party knows exactly what the agreement is, including the type of build, how much and when money is to be paid, when the build is to be concluded, penalties to the assembler for a late build, penalties to the buyer if he decides to unreasonably back out during the build, etc.

A contract that both parties agree to is all well and good, but what if the builder goes bankrupt? The buyer may lose all or part of the original money paid to the builder, regardless of contractual arrangements. Again, if the buyer has paid no down payment, or even a small down payment to get the build started, if the builder goes belly-up, the buyer has protected himself. The whole point I am making is that without a contract and due diligence by the buyer, the buyer may be at considerable risk. The thread was started with the buyer in mind---not the builder---and I had responded with the buyer in mind.

Naturally, if I as a buyer walked into a builder's shop and wanted to have a car built with little or no down payment, the builder could refuse to do it, and that's not unreasonable, but knowing what I know, as a buyer I would try to find a builder who I was confident in and who could meet me at least half-way.....and what if the builder dies during construction? The buyer might want to spend just a few dollars to purchase life insurance on the builder for the value of the car. Am I getting too anal? Probably, but several local friends have died where I live, and they were under 60 years old.

Conversely, if I were the builder, I would expect the buyer to make a down payment that was enough to indemnify me if the buyer suddenly and unreasonably decided to back out. To charge the buyer half or three-quarters of the entire price of the car would be stretching things a bit, and I wouldn't be surprised if the buyer refused this type of deal.

Since I was originally speaking from the buyer's standpoint, I again stress that if the buyer feels comfortable enough with the builder to pay more money down than he feels he can outright lose, it seems reasonable to me that he should at least maximize his due diligence by doing some checking on past business dealings by the builder, the builder's reputation in the car community, complaints lodged with the State Department of Corporations, Better Business Bureau, and so forth, plus be aware of the builder's reputation within the community of owners....e.g. on Spyderclub.
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Postby stephenriley » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:35 am

It seems that those of us in the UK who purchased our cars from Martin & Walker were lucky that we dealt with such an honest person! I paid a 25% deposit for my kit and handed over a cheque for the balance when I collected it only a couple of weeks later than promised. I was short of a few parts but these arrived a couple of weeks later in the post. I have been stung previously by another company but I as I paid using a credit card I retrieved my money through the credit card company. Taking people's hard earned cash when you have little or no inclination to follow through with your side of the deal sucks.
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Postby RS-60 mark » Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:26 pm

I think the moral to the story is:

A. If you are doing business with a solid company that has a well publicized track record of on-time delivery, a proven customer service support ethic, and high quality; then your investment is low risk and well spent.

B. On the other hand, if you are doing business with a company that has a continuous trail of documented unhappy customers who chronically do not get what they were promised and sometimes suffer even years of delays, then accept the fact that a fool and his money are soon parted. Don't complain later that you aren't getting what you were promised, you got what you deserved.

I don't feel sorry for the guy in the news at the top of this thread. He got exactly what he deserved. SAW had a published bad reputation long before the guy placed his order. Maybe the guy was swooned by the \"artiest\" himself, or maybe the guy was persuaded by the band of apologists for the \"artiest\", in any case he ended up paying for years of nothing but disappointment -- the fool.
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Postby prototype4 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:20 am

You all have points of merit. To add to them, if professional financing or insuring were more availible, it could all be less dramatic. The finacial community considers this kind of luxury market less than desirable, and therefore does not eagerly participate (there is no \"ACORN\" for replica cars :D ).
I suppose the best that anyone can do, is to live and act reasonably and ethically, and hope for the same from others (but keep an eye out for those that do not intend to :-s ).
All this sanity is hurting my brain just like R.I. Gumby #-o (the guy with the bricks in the Monty Python skit, remember?). Time to resume my arcane demeanor :nana: :sadnana:
ps- I think I know what the initials,\"R.I.\" stand for. Anyone hazard a guess themselves?
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