Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Vendor Advisories, Kudos, recommendations, etc.

Moderator: Larry Jowdy

Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Postby Devin » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:34 pm

So... Im just bringing up a topic that Im sure has been discussed many times over on this forum, but, I was wondering what is the best way to deal with Greg from Vintage. Never have I known a businessman to be so terrible on almost every level of customer service. To his defense he makes a great product... but that is where it ends.

I first put my deposit for a Kit back in June. Now I know others on this forum have obviously waited far longer for Greg to come around and that my complaint may not hold water to theirs haha. But I still have to finish this build. Greg was Late with the chassis and body by 2 months, and he had been telling me he would send the parts "tomorrow". It is now December and all I have received is some signal lights and fender mirror as well as a couple odds and ends here. Far from what is need to complete this Machine...

I've heard all about his trouble with Porsche, and thats understandable, but if they haven't shut him down then he still has to honor his commitments.

What Im here to ask is how anyone has got Greg to come around, get off his @$$ and send what he owes people. I should mention that everything has been paid in full since August, which I understand now was a big mistake. I have spoke with Russ from Fibersteel and he is more than willing to complete my order. Has anyone on here ever gotten a REFUND from Greg? Because frankly I do not want to do business with him. EVER AGAIN. I wouldn't buy a roll of toilet paper from him.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be great.

And If I haven't made this clear, to anyone looking to build a 550, DO NOT but from Vintage.
Devin
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:42 am
Location: Saskatoon, Sk Canada

Re: Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Postby Greenberg » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:03 pm

What are you missing?
Ya gotta drive it like ya stole it!
User avatar
Greenberg
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 4545
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:15 pm
Location: Port Moody, British Columbia

Re: Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Postby Devin » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:20 pm

Where to start.. Ivory banjo steering wheel, original handbreak, gas pedal, ignition, seats, seat rails, rear capet, leather door trim, gauges, horn, dash grab handle, wendler badges, gold spyder badges, gasket for mirror, gasket for signal lights and tail lights, oil cooler grill, both rear grills, front jack points, headlights, 4.5 rims, ivory shift knob, tan leather bonnet straps, trailing arms, rear shocks, ceramic exhaust, disc breaks (wide 5), spindles, thats all i can think of with out looking at my invoice.
Devin
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:42 am
Location: Saskatoon, Sk Canada

Re: Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Postby Devin » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:21 pm

Wiring harness as well. So pretty much everything haha
Devin
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:42 am
Location: Saskatoon, Sk Canada

Re: Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Postby Devin » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:24 pm

I have to make an amendment to this list of parts Im expecting. I have not actually paid for the exhaust or shocks yet, therefore I shouldn't be waiting for them, In the heat of the rant I made that mistake.
Last edited by Devin on Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Devin
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:42 am
Location: Saskatoon, Sk Canada

Re: Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Postby Greenberg » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:35 pm

Have you changed your order at all, and were you able to give all sizes on exact parts that you needed right from the beginning? Would be good to know for the future for all buyers and of course all vendors. I think in fairness to all vendors, an order with all the information up front from buyer including a deadline for changes on all orders would certainly help speed up the process. I'm not sure that this is what happened in your case, but just thinking about it , it may help others in the future as well as your advice.
Ya gotta drive it like ya stole it!
User avatar
Greenberg
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 4545
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:15 pm
Location: Port Moody, British Columbia

Re: Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Postby JayNiz » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:55 pm

Devin,

I'm curious as to why you would subject yourself to this notorious situation when the fraudulent business practice of Greg and Vintage Spyders has been well documented numerous times by various members on this site. It's no different than the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Until customers such as yourself stop contributing to this duplicitous business model, it's going to linger. I know that several members, including myself, have posted suggestions to help avoid this situation. Unfortunately, you're going to receive little if any sympathy as these posts are becoming tiresome.

If you cannot find a completed Vintage Spyder for sale and must have one built to order, the steps below should help alleviate the deception and lack of delivery.

1. Use a credit card for your transactions so that you have recourse
2. Establish a better legal and binding contract as to the phases of work and milestones
3. When it comes to parts, pay COD
4. Use an escrow account

As for your current situation, good luck. It'll probably take another unsuspecting customer's deposit to fund your project to completion while repeating the racket cycle.

-j
Last edited by JayNiz on Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
JayNiz
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:54 am
Location: Phila, PA

Re: Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Postby Devin » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:56 am

To be honest, i joined this forum well after i made my purchase. Then I began to read and the pit in my stomach grew. And I have to buy the car in pieces in order to get it over the border as I live in Canada and complete kit cars are illgeal here. Ive said my peace now all I can do is wait.
Devin
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:42 am
Location: Saskatoon, Sk Canada

Re: Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Postby RS-60 mark » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:02 pm

Devin wrote: Ive said my peace now all I can do is wait.

Devin,
I know you don't need any more bad news, but if you are "waiting" for parts from Vintage in order to finish your project then I predict you are about to learn a new definition for the term: "waiting".

I'm sorry for being so blunt, and it is only my personal prediction. But so far when I have predicted Vintage will fail to ship what the customer claims was paid for or promised, I have been 100% correct.

Of course, I might be wrong, but not likely. After all, according to your claims he already hasn't provided what you paid for and was promised. You have already been given the run-around, and a string of meaningless promises and "commitments". And, I think you already know what is (isn't) going to happen next; so there isn't much point in my reinforcing it.

If your project is currently hung-up waiting for parts, then if I were you I'd give it two more weeks for Vintage to ship me the balance of my order. (You can probably get any of the stuff on your list shipped in a day from the more reputable sources -- so it's not like there is a supply availability problem.) Then after two weeks I would start ordering what I need to keep moving on my project from the other more reputable sources.

In other words, I would just admit my loss and write-off the money-for-nothing from Vintage, and move on with my project. If you let that guy string you along with promises that will never be kept then I can imagine he will ruin your project and wreck your dream like we all have seen him do so many times to so many others before you.
User avatar
RS-60 mark
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 2940
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Windsor, California

Re: Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Postby JayNiz » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:45 pm

Mark - That sure is a passive approach. For me personally, I would be persistent and travel to the shop to collect my refund in person regardless of the cost.

Devin - what is the dollar amount for the parts owed? How is the language written in your statement of work assuming that you have something in writing versus just cash and a handshake? And what method did you use to make payment? Why not consider taking legal action? I'm not sure how many individuals it would take but there are and have been several other customers and vendors that have been boned by Vintage. Why not file a class action lawsuit? How about a claim with the Better Business Bureau?
User avatar
JayNiz
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 232
Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:54 am
Location: Phila, PA

Re: Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Postby Devin » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:38 pm

Well another day has gone by and I had the chance to speak to Greg yesterday. And guess what I heard folks? "ILL ship the parts tomorrow" and did he? Nope. So tomorrow morning I will make my visit to the police and file charges. I have spoke with the Stanton police in california and they are willing to help they just need my writen complaint from my local law enforcement. So thats my first step. The big problem is is that I knlw he cannot afford the refund. So my next plan is to hop on a plane in the new year and make a "house call". But I know that will not end pleasent.. If there are any Spyder owners in the LA area between the 7th to the 15th of January, id love to see some of your machines. It would make the trip far more enjoyable. And the third plan is to make sure he never has a customer again. For his sake I hope it doesnt come to this. Because it sound like I have a lot more free time that he has to promote his business. And Greg... I know you read these posts, im not bluffing.
Devin
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:42 am
Location: Saskatoon, Sk Canada

Re: Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Postby RS-60 mark » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:27 pm

Good for you Devin! Maybe JayNiz is right, I was too passive because obviously there are other choices besides just to bend over and "take it". Filing a police report sounds like a good way to go. I can't imagine Greg would look forward to a criminal fraud investigation -- I wonder what peeling THAT onion would expose!
User avatar
RS-60 mark
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 2940
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Windsor, California

Re: Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Postby Greenberg » Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:39 pm

JayNiz wrote:Mark - That sure is a passive approach. For me personally, I would be persistent and travel to the shop to collect my refund in person regardless of the cost.

Devin - what is the dollar amount for the parts owed? How is the language written in your statement of work assuming that you have something in writing versus just cash and a handshake? And what method did you use to make payment? Why not consider taking legal action? I'm not sure how many individuals it would take but there are and have been several other customers and vendors that have been boned by Vintage. Why not file a class action lawsuit? How about a claim with the Better Business Bureau?



I assure you Jay, I am far from passive. Oh, and lets be real here.......there is really only one vendor in this entire Spyder community that I know that does not treat his customers this way. In fact I remember not so long ago, one vendor here and his customer, one of our members getting into a tiff and the vendor fork lifted his car up to a mazanine so it could not be touched. This is the level of business ethics this community has. I personally run just a little tiny bodyshop company that has a couple of satisfied customers :-\" so I do know what customer service should look like. That being said, if you make orders for this kind of money without doing as much research as possible on the vendor, you are absolutely exposing yourself to the obvious.

I think at this point, Devins only recourse is, jump on a plane, get the biggest nastiest freakin towtruck driver he can find and go to Gregs shop and get the amount of product he has paid for, get the Stanton Police involved as he is doing, or wait like all the other customers have done. Its just that simple. Personally I know what I would do, and did. I got all my parts from all of the vendors I chose to use no problem.

Just sayin!
Ya gotta drive it like ya stole it!
User avatar
Greenberg
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 4545
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 6:15 pm
Location: Port Moody, British Columbia

Re: Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Postby Devin » Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:29 pm

Ill be honest, I can be passionate both ways here, If Greg is terrible, I will be the loudest person out there to ruin him, but if he keeps his end I will back him to the end of the earth. Its not MY choice, it is HIS. With that said, I received a call tonight from Greg and he says he has a package all sealed up and ready to go out tomorrow, and to ease my temper he sent me a picture of said package ready to go. I will look forward to receiving a tracking number tomorrow. The flip side of this good news is that he can not send out the parts I need to get this thing rolling (ie trailing arms, brakes, spindles) until the new year. But this is a start. Thanks for speaking your thoughts everyone. Im still planning to go to LA in the new year, so PM me if any of you would like to show a poor ol Canadian what a Spyder should be.
Devin
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:42 am
Location: Saskatoon, Sk Canada

Re: Broken Record... Vintage Spyders

Postby RicardoSwe » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:22 am

Devin,

So sorry to hear your $$ problem. I agree that Greg makes a quality product; I bought my Vintage kit for the frame and the quality. I have not been disappointed. (My car is almost finished. It's running, in the last tweaking steps. As soon as it stops raining for a while, I will SMOG it in Calif. under SB100 rules.)

I have found Greg to be pleasant in person and able to deliver when the right buttons can be pressed. I try to treat people as I'd like to be treated, which leads me to do *whatever* I can think of to "help" a person deliver on their contracted commitments. With active encouragement to do the right thing, it can work.

I consider the multiple trips to Stanton to be part of the expected cost of buying the car. That's just how it is.

Having been more or less where you are, here are some suggestions, partly for future Vintage Spyder buyers. These worked for me --

* Set up progress payments in writing in the contract. Pay upon completion/delivery. No delivery, no payment. (I learned this years ago with home contractors. It works and is needed not infrequently.) (I know it's too late for you, but this is advice for future buyers.) Greg will agree to progress payments if you insist.
* Don't rely on Greg's "I'm ready to mail it tomorrow" approach -- ever. You need to take charge of making things happen, in person.
* Go to Greg's shop in person. Let him know you're coming, so he will be at the shop. (Don't ask how I know.) I flew to SoCal three times early in 2012 to do this. At the shop, take all the parts available that you have paid for. Greg delivered my kit as a roller, but getting the last ~$1,000 parts took a lot of follow up and creativity. I finally had my brother-in-law go to the shop to take whatever parts were on hand. I paid for these after I had the parts. I had enough $$ left from the last progress payment to buy what little was not delivered.
* If you have Greg's mobile number, he will sometimes reply with a brief text msg or photo. This worked better for me than phone messages.
* I always treat Greg with respect and a clear inference that I expect him to carry through. I think it does help to treat him (or anyone) this way. I like Greg but I was appropriately cautious in contracting & taking delivery. And I worked to have a plan B ready when needed.

End result -- I got my car and I have a good ongoing relationship still with Greg.

Last resort ---legal action --
I didn't need go take legal action to get my Vintage kit delivered, but I would not hesitate to do so if that's all that's left. I worked hard to avoid this step, but in other similar contractor problems ($$) I have not hesitated. It works. California Small Claims Court will take claims up to $10,000. You would file in Stanton's local court in Orange County. You need to show up in person both to file (I think) and for the court date. It works; judgments are legally enforced. It gets a contractor's attention to be served for a court appearance.

Oh -- and my philosophy -- avoid involving attorneys. Things go south when they get involved and it becomes a *very long and costly process*. You're very likely to be paying much of the costs yourself. Others may have an in with an attorney friend, but I'd avoid it. -- You can do things yourself in Small Claims Court.
Richard --
User avatar
RicardoSwe
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:03 am
Location: SF East Bay, CA

Next

Return to Vendor Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

cron