Best 718 replica?

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Best 718 replica?

Postby Maybach123 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:59 am

HI I am new here. We have a couple of beck 550 replicas in my town and i have always wanted something that is a bit different little more unusual. So i decided on the 718. Anyways I would like to know who makes the best quality 718 replicas? It can be a roller or kit.
Thanks
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Re: Best 718 replica?

Postby RS-60 mark » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:40 am

Your choices are almost zero. There is maybe Rock West. They acquired the fiberglass tooling that came from defunct Thunder Ranch. Thunder Ranch had acquired its original fiberglass tooling from defunct Ryan Engineering. (All of this is happening around San Diego) Ryan got its tooling from then soon-to-be defunct GP Spyders (England).

GP Spyders is the mother of all production fiberglass 718 body shapes. In the '80s, these body shells were sold as true VW kit-car "bolt-ons". They were attached to a VW beetle pan chassis, including rear mounted engine. The GP Spyders body produced the "look" of a 718, but by no means was created as a "replica".

Thunder Ranch took the GP Body shape and modified it to fit their 550 spyder chassis (mid engine) and 356 windscreen and dashboard gauge cluster. These changes are inherited by Rock West. I don't personally like the modifications. I feel they make the look more afar from the "real thing" then the already un-authentic GP Spyder shape. But on the plus side, I can assure that virtually NO ONE is going to know the difference one way or another. Among the more common by-stander comments I get is: "What year Ferrari is that?" Most can't event get the country right, let alone pick out the styling and mechanical design technicalities that differ from the real thing. One thing is universal, it gets big-time attention no matter what people think it is!!

I know nothing about Rock West so I offer no endorsement of their capability, quality or business practices. https://www.rockwestracing.com/category/rw-rsk/

Thunder Ranch is the only company that manufactured a mid engine 718 "replica". And there are only a handful of them (again, on the ladder frame 550, swing axle chassis). There are even fewer mid engine, space frame, IRS chassis versions built as one-offs by individuals who had access to a body. Here is one of them:
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20141004_111625-b.jpg
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Re: Best 718 replica?

Postby RS-60 mark » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:17 am

Fact check alert!

In the Rock West link posted above they state: "The basic body form of the RW RSK, molded from a specific, authentic race car . . . "
I do believe this is bull shit. As I pointed out in the post above, to my knowledge the basic body form is rooted to a VW kit-car that has absolutely no origin pedigree physically cloned or lifted from any authentic 718.

Rock West seems to double-down on this line of possible misinformation when they continue on to say: "Given the exclusivity of this period-correct racing reproduction . . ."
It is certainly not a reproduction and it is far,far from period correct!

Then they go on to say: "the RW RSK achieves a high level of sophistication and historical accuracy for the discriminating collector . . ."
Really?? At best, one might say the RW RSK is a stylized impression of the 718. I can't spot a single component or section of body panel that is historically accurate. (Well, it does have two headlights -- although they are not historically accurate recreations either.)

Does Rock West deserve business practices beat-down? After all, it is not unusual to "embellish" one's product. However their statements above sound to me more like misrepresentations than embellishments.
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Re: Best 718 replica?

Postby Paul Foreman » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:34 am

I have rescanned my RS61 recreation and will produce "accurate" shells in fibreglass with full space frame chassis within the next few years.
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Re: Best 718 replica?

Postby RS-60 mark » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:46 am

OMG!!! Spectacular news Paul! Finally a 718 "replica" that really IS a replica!!

All those statements by Rock West mentioned above in this thread that are not true; well, all of them are true if spoken about Paul Foreman's car.

To make the point, compare this picture of Paul's car with the picture I posted above of my car. Up until now, my car is about the best you can do with a commercially available fiberglass 718 look-alike. As you can see, my look-alike is not even close to a honestly correct true replica. To be historically fair, the body shapes (and chassis) of the 718 did change quite a bit during the four years from the RSK through the RS-61, so very few of the originals are replicas of each other. However, my car is just as far from being close to any of those as it is from being close to Paul's RS-61 clone.
Over the years that I have known of Paul Foreman I have found the word "modesty" to be an overstatement. I guess he doesn't have to brag or embellish. His work speaks for itself. Check it out: http://s1047.photobucket.com/albums/b47 ... 20Project/
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Re: Best 718 replica?

Postby Maybach123 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:49 pm

Paul Foreman wrote:I have rescanned my RS61 recreation and will produce "accurate" shells in fibreglass with full space frame chassis within the next few years.



RS-60 mark wrote:To make the point, compare this picture of Paul's car with the picture I posted above of my car. Up until now, my car is about the best you can do with a commercially available fiberglass 718 look-alike. As you can see, my look-alike is not even close to a honestly correct true replica. To be historically fair, the body shapes (and chassis) of the 718 did change quite a bit during the four years from the RSK through the RS-61, so very few of the originals are replicas of each other. However, my car is just as far from being close to any of those as it is from being close to Paul's RS-61 clone.
Over the years that I have known of Paul Foreman I have found the word "modesty" to be an overstatement. I guess he doesn't have to brag or embellish. His work speaks for itself. Check it out: http://s1047.photobucket.com/albums/b47 ... 20Project/


Is yours an irs or thunder ranch? I guess i just have to keep my eye on what comes up for sale. If none come up by the time paul has finished his I will try to buy one of those.
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Re: Best 718 replica?

Postby RS-60 mark » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:32 pm

Mine is personally scratch-built under a Ryan / GP Spyder body shell.
Here is picture of my home-made chassis. It is VW torsion swing arm in front and full 5-link IRS in rear. Space frame structure is "reminiscent" of the 718, but certainly not a dimensional replica.
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Re: Best 718 replica?

Postby TSchommer » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:57 pm

Awesome, it looks like a nicely engineered chassis using triangulation for added rigidity.
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Re: Best 718 replica?

Postby Maybach123 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:56 pm

RS-60 mark wrote:Mine is personally scratch-built under a Ryan / GP Spyder body shell.
Here is picture of my home-made chassis. It is VW torsion swing arm in front and full 5-link IRS in rear. Space frame structure is "reminiscent" of the 718, but certainly not a dimensional replica.

how did you register it considering the chassis is "homebuilt" (for lack of a better word)? I only ask because i have another project on the back burner. But i have no idea how to register a scratch built car.
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Re: Best 718 replica?

Postby RS-60 mark » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:50 pm

Maybach,
States have differing methods for registering home garage creations, replicas, hot rods, etc. I don't know how other states do it, so my suggestion is to ask the question how to register in your state on another thread. If you are in California, the preferred method is what we refer to as "SB 100". There is plenty written about SB 100 on spyderclub and you can fish the info using the Search function in upper right hand corner of the screen you are now looking at.

Oh, and, welcome to spyderclub!
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Re: Best 718 replica?

Postby Maybach123 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:23 pm

RS-60 mark wrote:Maybach,
States have differing methods for registering home garage creations, replicas, hot rods, etc. I don't know how other states do it, so my suggestion is to ask the question how to register in your state on another thread. If you are in California, the preferred method is what we refer to as "SB 100". There is plenty written about SB 100 on spyderclub and you can fish the info using the Search function in upper right hand corner of the screen you are now looking at.

Oh, and, welcome to spyderclub!

Thansk for the welcome, I am in new jersey but i will post a new thread about that .
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Re: Best 718 replica?

Postby Mtflyr » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:45 am

RS-60,

Wow! great looking frame there.

Maybach,

You might want to check on the SOC (Speedster Owners Club web page and ask there lots of folks have both the 550's and Speedster repros.) I have both the SE/Beck 550 and a 356. In VA you apply for a Special Construction Vehicle for these builds most states have similar ways to do it. There may be guys fro NJ who've done this and can help guide you. It's a great site for the 550 & Speedsters.

http://www.speedsterowners.com/

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Re: Best 718 replica?

Postby Maybach123 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:34 pm

Hi!
I am back after about a year, I ended up buying a nice 09 boxster. It is an incredibly fun car but I still have the itch to build a kit car. I contacted rockwest racing thinking they sold kits unfortunately they only have bodies. From what I understand though all of the other parts accept the frame can be bought from "suppliers" that they work with. Does anyone know where I could possibly get a frame? or what one looks like so I could possibly get it made.
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Re: Best 718 replica?

Postby RS-60 mark » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:41 pm

Hi Maybach. Welcome back!

Once again, if you are thinking 718 it all comes back to Paul Foreman.

Here is THE chassis for a 718 project.
Picture198_zps464300b7.jpg


Will a Rock West body shell simply drape over this chassis? Not very likely. Maybe you should contact Paul Foreman and find out where he is on his fiberglass body project.
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Re: Best 718 replica?

Postby Paul Foreman » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:40 am

Hi,
I'm still on the project. Spent the last months creating a new 3D body from various models and pictures as the old scan data did not have enough detail. I am also not using the old data as I do not have the owners permission.
We overlaid the new and old data as a comparison and it showed up some symmetry issues with the original scan. These are not present with the new 3D model.
I am just waiting for quotes for the mould and I will be ready to progress to the next stage.
The front and rear main body sections will be fibre glass and the bonnet, doors, engine cover and side covers in aluminium.
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