Hello

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Re: Hello

Postby RBP » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:19 am

Well you will need to do some thinking then. This might be where you decide Aircooled or Watercooled! If you go aircooled and want EFI the cost for that will be 2 - 3 K USD. Using the Subie, it comes with EFI so you'd be all set with no additional cost.
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Re: Hello

Postby Ray550 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:04 am

If this was a scratch build, I think the decision would be easier. Since the project is half done, I need to understand what it would take to undo then redo if I change paths. Essentially, I'm trying to understand both builds before deciding. The other major factor is all the emissions equipment that comes with the Subaru engine that I will have to deal with.

I asked a friend about his dunebuggy. He has carbs on it now and said if he were to do it all over again, he would have fuel injected it. I didn't get a chance to ask him why (yet). That's why I was leaning to fuel injection but from your impressions, I may be perfectly happy with carbs. I can make that decision later.
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Re: Hello

Postby RBP » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:45 am

The weber carbs are good quality and provide consistant operation once "dialed in properly", key words here "dialed in properly". There are two circuits, idle and mains, once you understand how and when they operate you can start the tuning process. The most difficult part is getting the jetting correct, there are idle jets, main jets, air correction jets and emulsion tubes that you need to consider. I bought a wide band O2 meter so I know what my AFR is! Once the jetting is done properly all thats needed are some minor adjustments at the mixture screws every so often. You will never get the AFR perfect under all operating conditions like you can with EFI but you can get pretty close. There are many of us that have dialed their carbs in for optimum operation, two you may want to ask are Danny and Ed.

So do you have a project car? Is there an engine? I got the impression you hadn't taken the final leap and bought a project yet.

In my opinion most people have no idea how the carbs work and don't invest the time to figure them out. The result is their engine runs badly and the carbs get blamed.
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Re: Hello

Postby DannyP » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:05 am

Rudy, that last sentence is right on the mark.

A wideband AFR gauge is definitely a plus. It completely takes the guesswork out. I just bought the ASPX for $125.
My Innovate MTX-L took a crap, looks to me like mine wasn't a fluke. They seem to be failing. Mine is about 8-10 years old, and was never abused.

https://www.wide-band.com/product-p/apsx_d2n.htm

Along with that, add a fuel pressure/vacuum gauge($30 at Autozone) and an airflow meter( or snail, another $30)

I just chronicled a little problem with Jet Doctors over at Speedsterowners.com

https://www.speedsterowners.com/topic/w ... -technical

Ray, I've also written an article on synching carbs, it's posted here in Tips, Tricks, and Knowledge.
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Re: Hello

Postby Ray550 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:31 pm

Rudy, I have not taken the plunge yet. The project I'm looking at taking over has a Subaru engine in it and I have been trying to convince myself this is the way I should go. For the information and input I have gathered so far, it sounds like air-cooled is the better path for me. OK, I can go with carbs and once setup, I shouldn't have any reason to go EFI.

Danny, thanks for the link. That site looks like another great source of information. However, I will have to register before I can access that article. Sound like you are the weber guru and I will certainly take advantage of your expertise when the time comes.
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Re: Hello

Postby danstern » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:21 pm

I've had my air cooled for 7 years and 20K miles and only fettle with the Webers when feeling in a mechanical mood. The air cooled is so much closer to originals, not sure of Subie engines.
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Re: Hello

Postby EEricson » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:52 pm

The carbed, air-cooled engines give you that old school feeling and that's a big plus for some guys and a big minus for others. Guys who grew up working on ancient VWs are usually (not always) a little scared of O2 sensors and 40-psi fuel pumps and carn-sarn comPUTERS. Guys who grew up NOT working on car engines are usually more scared of Webers, as are the younger dudes whose formative automotive performance mod was the Hyperchip.

Guys like Danny P--who can work on anything and actually like learning new stuff--are basically unicorns.

To my way of thinking, if you're not an old fart who gets board if you don't have something to stick your feeler gauge in, and your not some kind of freakish stickler for details who thinks (falsely) you get extra Street Cred for having carbs and cooling fins on your bogus 550, then go Subaru. Those engines are just...better. More power, less maintenance, WAY less maintenance, much more durable, and less money unless you were gonna go with a 1915 or smaller Type 1. Also less maintenance. Also you can just run with normal 5-30 oil in it instead of getting into a gun fight every six months over how much ZDDP's required in your lubricant of choice.

Really it's not a close contest—again, unless mucking about with air-cooled engines is your thing.
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Re: Hello

Postby Ray550 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:43 pm

OK, thanks for your point of view. Before you scare me away with maintenance, what of maintenance are we talking here? What the maintenance difference between 1915/smaller Type 1 vs larger Type 1 or even a Type 4. Old school feel is worth something to me. Street creds, I don't care about; I'm way past that stage of life. My ride, my enjoyment. Maybe not quite old fart yet, but getting there.
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Re: Hello

Postby RBP » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:04 pm

There is no big amount maintenance, in my opinion there is very little. The only difference between aircooled and subie is that the newer watercooled Subie power plant has EFI and a hydrolic valve train. Personally I like the mecanical valve train and Webers in the air cooled engines. My engine is a 2316 porsche type IV out of a 914. Once you set the valves (mechanical rockers) they should be good for years unless you change something. As for the carbs, as I said before once you get them set up right there is a little adjustment required every once in a while, thats it.

There is no better sound than those Webers combined with the mechanical valve train right behind you. Also if you are going to build a "Replica" you would think one would want to try and stay with replicating the original to capture some of the history and experience the car the way it was. Again everyone has an opinion, thats just mine.

As for oil, its very simple just buy a case of Swepco 15-40 or Brad Penn and your done.

Here is what my type IV looks like.
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Re: Hello

Postby egrant5329 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:01 am

You could go Type-IV with hydraulic lifters. A local VW bus guy advised against it for a car that sits as many months as mine does (long NH winters), but it is an option.

If you plan on doing the work/trouble shooting yourself I think aircooled is a good way to go. If you are going to pay someone to do it for you then I would go subie. I went with a type-1 mainly due to cost and that was what my car was set up for. Myself I could live without the sound of the chromemoly pushrods that most performance VW engines use. If your carbs are setup correctly they really aren't much of a problem. If one gets gunked up they are easy to clean.
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Re: Hello

Postby DannyP » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:25 am

It's a hand built car. Things are gonna break and require messing about. In my opinion, a Spyder is BEGGING for an aircooled motor. Easy access to the entire drivetrain is the key here. Whatever happens, it's easy to get to. And things will happen, I promise. You can look at it as an opportunity to learn and bond with things mechanical, or not. Then go Subaru.

As far as valve adjustments go, once a year isn't going to kill anybody. Yeah, Subarus are more efficient and require less maintenance. So what? You simply aren't going to drive a topless car that much for it to really matter. I really don't want the extra complexity of EFI and water tubes and radiator and hoses. Plus the extra weight. The whole point of the car is to do more with less. That starts with less weight, a la Colin Chapman.
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Re: Hello

Postby danstern » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:01 am

I'm in the air cooled school as well. Then again, I'm an old fart. Once sorted they're not much trouble and more fun IMHO.
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Re: Hello

Postby egrant5329 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:05 am

Danny speaking of valve adjustments and sorry for the topic drift. You are running a crank trigger setup. How do you do your valve adjustments without a distributor pointing to the cylinder?

Do you rotate the crank clockwise until the exhaust valve on #2 is the only thing moving on the 1/2 side and the crank is at TDC, then set lash on #1, rotate counter clockwise to BDC and do #2, rotate counter clockwise to TDC and do #3, rotate counter clockwise to BDC and do #4. Basically like in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wtNARLdF58

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Re: Hello

Postby DannyP » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:50 am

I pop both valve covers. I start with #1 at TDC. Easy to find TDC with the covers off and the trigger wheel/toothed wheel. I look across at #3 and adjust the valve opposite the fully open valve. I then turn the engine backwards and do number 2, 3, and 4 in succession.
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Re: Hello

Postby egrant5329 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:01 pm

VW just set the Pikes Peak record in an electric car 12.4 miles in 7:57 and a Porsche 919 hybrid set the Nurburging lap record 12.94 miles in 5:19 averaging 145.3 mph. I think there have been at least one person that has made electric 550 spyder. I believe it was old tech with lead acid batteries. It wouldn't sound as cool, but with the way EVs are progressing you could make a very fast EV spyder and probably a decent range. If I had unlimited time (and money), I think it would be fun to do.

Back to the maintenance issue. Honestly, I agree with Rudy and don't find maintenance to be much. Check valve lash once a year, change the oil once a season usually. Generally that's about it for mine and my spyder is circa 1986. What eats up much more of my time is there is always some improvement I want or some little change I want to make. Things like changing from drum to disc brakes, 4 bolt to wide-5 wheels, adding an authentic looking emergency hand brake, added seat heaters, changed to crankfire ignition, etc....... I guess that's why they call it a hobby car.

What ever you pick, it will be an attention grabbing, fun car. I highly recommend finding one to ride in or drive first. I have seen it numerous times that people have fretted over getting the most authentic spyder and every little detail had to be just right. Then after waiting months and months for the build to be completed, they turn around and sell it with less than 1000 miles on the car.

I can't wait to see what you pick.
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