weber Linkage

Engines, Transmissions, running gear, etc.

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Re: weber Linkage

Postby Carlos G » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:25 pm

Eric,
There is no typical size for jets. The jets (idle, main, and air) are all dependent on your location's altitude and humidity, and your engine build.

I also have a 2276 with 44 webers and when my car arrived at my location, it was dripping fuel from the exhaust and fouling my plugs. My car was built in Phoenix and I live in the mountains of NC. That's at least a 1200' difference.

Learning to tune your carbs is pretty easy but there is a sequence that must be followed.
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Re: weber Linkage

Postby Ralphc » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:54 pm

for 36mm venturi- start with 200 air correctors and 145 main jets; 55 idle -at sea level or low altitude.
This thread on the Samba -
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... p?t=293837
contains procedures for tuning IDF's; and I believe condensed versions have been posted on Spyderclub in the past.
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Re: weber Linkage

Postby SpyderMike » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:46 pm

John, who posted on that samba thread also has great tech articles on his www.aircooled.net website regarding tuning Webers. I found them spot on and very helpful.
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Re: weber Linkage

Postby RBP » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:58 pm

Check and verify the floats to 11mm to 14mm open & 25mm for full stroke, the 25 doesn't really matter as much as the 11 to 14. Be sure you verify tight shut off at the needle and seat?

Do not change any jets till you do some checks and get an idea of whats going on! Pull all 4 of the main jet stacks and go for a ride on the idle circuit. Don't try and accelerate fast just accelerate nice and slow up to the 2500 - 3000 RPM range. If you can drive around without the engine falling flat/sputtering then you don't need larger idle jets but may need smaller ones. Decrease idle jet size and continue to test till the engine falls flat/sputters (in the 2500 - 3000 RPM range) then go up one size till it runs smooth. At this point you will be in the zone as for as the idle circuit jets are concerned. Most people are running way too rich. Check the inside of your exhaust/tail pipe. Is it black with soot? I run a 2316 with about 200 HP and my idles are 50's. Would be ideal if you have an assortment of jet sizes you know are true, say a .45, .47.5, .50, .52.5 & .55. These are standard sizes and available from various sources. I got mine from Aircooled.net, they use the jets manufactured in Italy, I don't trust the ones from China, had too many problems.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Weber-IDF- ... /74405.htm

Once you have this sorted take note of when the idles fall flat, likely 2500 - 3000 rpm. Then install the main stacks and play with the AC's (air correction) to bring the mains in at the right RPM range (i.e. the point where the idles max out 2500 - 3000 rpm), the larger the AC the sooner the mains will start feeding fuel through the carbs. You might need some larger mains or AC jets. I would guess that engine would need 155 mains and 200 AC's or there about.

To really know you need a wide band O2 meter so you can see whats happening.

Another item to consider is that if you bought a used car you don't know what's what with the engine and jetting, the PO may have been wrongly advised he needed larger jets (typical). At this point, instead of purchasing new jets, he may have reamed out the idle jets in you carbs to who knows what size. You need to make sure you know what those jets are! Get a jet feeler gauge and find out what you have. You may find someone has been in there and messed things up. They could be stamped 50 but be all different sizes causing all kinds of problems. Check this very carefully!

Your goal for AFR with the basic distributor would be low 14's at idle and high 13's for all other driving, if you can get in the mid 14 - 15 range for cruising that would be good but its hard to get everything without being able to change the advance while underway.
Last edited by RBP on Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: weber Linkage

Postby albaran » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:37 am

You say that you would need a wideband AFR meter to see what is going on. Does anyone have a narrowband AFR gage and sensor permanently attached? Something like this: https://www.glowshiftdirect.com/tinted- ... tio-gauge/ Would it be of any value to determine if you have the right jet sizes?
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Re: weber Linkage

Postby RBP » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:38 pm

The narrow band link you posted is for the gauge only the sensor would be an additional cost. The 2nd sentence states "This air/fuel gauge will give you general readings of your air/fuel mixture, but we recommend the Wideband Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge if you are really looking to tune your vehicle." The narrow band will measure 14.7 AFR + or - but doesn't display actual values. The narrow band sensor typically measures from say 14.2 to 15 which is ok for an application designed for operation at 14.7 with an ECU controlling EFI.

On most our cars with webers, (no EFI) you will want to try and get low 14's at idle and say 13 at WOT and cruise at say 13.7 to 14.2 if possible. To do that you have to deal with jet sizes, to deal with jet sizes you have to know what different size jets do to your AFR under various conditions, and they are all different. To try and get these numbers will require changing idle jets, main jets and air correction jets.

You can get a wide band O2 http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Innovate-M ... e-3918.htm that inludes the sensor and cable for about 220.00. Even without the gauge and sensor you can get pretty close if you follow the instruction I posted.
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Re: weber Linkage

Postby RVosari » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:20 pm

Gordon Nichols (the Speedster guy from Grafton, Mass) makes a perfectly serviceable ball-bearing carb linkage mod for the VW motor…2 years ago it was around $ 50. And you don’t have to go to Götterdämmerung, Germany to get one. :)

I put one on a local guys souped-up VW and it works well. The kit even comes with a nice CD for the mechanically challenged.

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Re: weber Linkage

Postby DannyP » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:44 am

What Rudy(RBP) is saying about tuning is all true, and correct that you want a wideband as opposed to a narrowband.

I had the Innovate, but it crapped out on me after a year, so IMHO it's garbage.

I bought this one, $125 US delivered:

http://www.wide-band.com/product-p/wb_d2n.htm

It works very well, and even comes with a bung to weld in your exhaust. Drill a hole with a HF step bit, weld and paint. I put a cigarette lighter plug on mine as mine is for temporary use. It came in handy to diagnose a rich bog between 2-3000 rpm caused by short velocity stacks combined with jet-doctors. Intake reversion was causing the problem.

Rev: Gordon got the idea for the linkage fix from me in 2006 when he saw my linkage at Carlisle. It's probably $20 in parts, because that's all mine cost to do.
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Re: weber Linkage

Postby albaran » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:18 am

I guess what you are all saying is that the wide band gauge is good for temporary use but not for a permanent installation.
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Re: weber Linkage

Postby egrant5329 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:26 am

I have the 4-2-1 exhaust and there really isn't a great spot to install a bung other than at the 2-1 location post mufflers. I use an exhaust clamp like this https://www.autohance.com/innovate-moto ... clamp.html If I had a bung permanently installed I would run my wideband all the time.

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Re: weber Linkage

Postby DannyP » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:09 pm

Al, you can leave a wideband in all the time, but once you're done tuning, there's no real point to leave it there. Just one man's opinion.

I put my bung in the top of the 2 into 1 exit after the mufflers, Ed. That way I get a reading on all 4 cylinders. It's the only place they all come together, and on my car it's still a foot to the exhaust exit. I was concerned about fresh air reversion throwing the readings off but the readings are fine.
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Re: weber Linkage

Postby RBP » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:48 am

I agree with Danny. I bought mine, welded in the bung then did a temporary power connection via a cig lighter socket. I then ran different jetting till I got the best AFR closest to my objectives. Once I got that I removed the sensor, installed the plug (also came with the device) and removed the gauge and wiring. Mine doesn't look like a gauge so I couldn't leave it in even if I wanted to. Also I don't like the idea of cutting a hole in the dash and installing a gauge that was never there.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Innovate-L ... e-3837.htm
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Re: weber Linkage

Postby EricTheRed » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:45 pm

Ok been a bit..was waiting on the CSP linkage to show up from Germany. Was not cheap but if the statements are true people have said about long lasting tune, well it's worth the money!

Got it on today but had to adjust a few things. All in all this system is pretty great and simple to set up, I only had to file the hole a bit for the actuator that connects to the weber carb. The laser cut hole was just a little to small for the weber linkage to fit into.
The other thing that's surprising is the return spring, I've got it working but it feels like this was an after thought on the system. It does not align as well as I would like, but it works. Mostly looks a bit strange.

Now its time to tune and start using it to see the throttle response.
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Re: weber Linkage

Postby Kris Courtney » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:33 am

Ordered the CSP kit . 200 bucks from Germany to Hawaii in one week .the kit was so tight everything was hard to press on.But what a fit. No wiggle anywhere.the Cb performance was shot after 3000 miles .My Air Should and generator was a little high. So I had to shim the Hex bar up 13 mm.
Great product see how it holds up.
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