Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

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Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

Postby SpyderMike » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:21 pm

I cranked the pig up for the first time in about six months and she started right up. I decided to take her for a short drive to blow the cobwebs out. I really like driving this car, except...the transmission. It is an old 1966 long axle stock unit I ripped out of a derelict bug back in the late 1980s. Leaks like crazy. It's not even pretty to look at. The next iteration of this car will include a new transmission and skinnier tires. So here are the questions:

1. Gear ratios for the 2165 or 2180 (can't remember what was built 22 years ago) that is in there. Back country road driving with occassional highway trips. Looking at picking up a Rancho Pro Street unit with 3:88. Are you all changing any of the stock gear ratios and finding out good things? Looking for taller 1st, nice 2nd and 3rd, and tall 4th...

2. I have stock 5.5 Mangles and currently run 205R60/15. The tires are original to the build and need to be replaced. I want to go skinnier - can I go down to 165 with these rims? I will be having Rancho supply the shorter axles as I want to drop the ride height down a notch.

3. Ride height - with tires in the 165/R60/15 to 195/R60/15 range and shorter axles, will the tire tuck into the fenders with stock Mangle offset (whatever that dimension is)?

Thanks in advance folks...I appreciate any feedback.

Mike
Last edited by SpyderMike on Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

Postby DannyP » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:57 pm

Mike, since I have a V, I can't really help with the axles thing. But I really like my stock ratio trans(pretty sure) with 3.44 final. I recently(two weeks ago) did 700 miles. 280 each way to Pennsylvania for the Pumpkin run and over 100 miles whilw there. 80 mph on the highway yielded 29.3 mpg from my 2165. Not too shabby! Somewhere around 34-3500 rpm, IIRC. A 5 speed would have been nice for some of the hairpins/twisties/switchbacks, but most times the right gear was there to go with the powerband. I think if you go 3.88, you'll want a taller first, because I almost want one with my 3.44. Second gives about 60 at 6500, third is good for 95 at redline. You can cruise in 4th down to 40(loafing), 45 is more comfortable though. Spirited driving at semi-legal speeds, 4th is unneeded. But at around 90, 4th gear is perfect. Squirts up to 110 in a few seconds, right in the torque band.

Contact Carey Hines about Mangles/short axles/tire sizes. I really like the handling of my car with a stock bug swaybar on the front, 185/65/15s and 195/60/15 Bridgestone RE960 Pole Postions. The car is very sticky, but will slide when provoked, and well balanced. You can even lift(a little) in a decreasing radius corner. It will just start to oversteer a little, so you take some steering out and she hangs right in there.

165/15 on a 5.5? It appears ok. Here is a tire/rim size chart: http://customwheelsmarket.com/rimwheelwidth1.html
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Re: Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

Postby SpyderMike » Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:25 pm

Thanks DannyP. I appreciate the 3:44 suggestion. I will run the calcs and see how that differs from the 3:88.

Thanks for the tire recommendation too. I checked those out and they look like they will work fine.

Mike
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Re: Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

Postby Larry Jowdy » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:00 am

Mike, with short axles, stock Mangles wheels will keep the tires tucked inside the wheel wells
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Re: Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

Postby SpyderMike » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:54 am

Thank you Larry! I would appreciate uour opinions on the gear ratios if you get a chance.
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Re: Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

Postby RS-60 mark » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:09 am

Mike -- my odo turned over 20,000 miles this weekend, a huge percentage of that on twisty back roads. I have a 3.44 and wish I had a taller 1st and taller 2nd. But I don't wish for it enough to justify spending a bunch extra for it.

Most would probably agree that the stock 1st is about useless for anything more than a gratuitous starting gear. Where I really could find benefit is closing the gap between 2nd and 3rd. It seems like I'm always in a corner that drops into at about 35-40 mph. (roughly 3400 in 2nd or 2000 in 3rd on my tires). So I can wail in 2nd or chug in 3rd. I'd like something with a little less wail.
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Re: Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

Postby Larry Jowdy » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:12 pm

Mike, I like the 3.44 but if your plans are to add a Quaif limited slip differential then it won't work, you'll have to use a 3.88. Call Sammy at Rancho Transaxles in Fullerton and discuss exactly what you want from the transaxle and he'll set you up with the correct gearing.

Rancho Performance Transaxles
1015 East Elm Avenue
Fullerton, California
USA 92831
Toll Free within North America:
1-800-304-8726
Telephone: 714-680-6737
Fax: 714-680-3110
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Re: Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

Postby Greenberg » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:23 pm

The guys at Rancho are excellent and very helpful. I loved the 3:88 setup on my car. That being said, I ran a subie, what a rocket. The quaiffe was also a must especially when you go hard in and out of the corners.
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Re: Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

Postby beck688 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:36 pm

Can't imagine not having the quaiffe -- when it hooks up it is really fun - there is that little step out and then it straightens out like it's on rails. Plus the two black lines are neat.
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Re: Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

Postby Ralphc » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:14 pm

3.11- 1st; 2.08- 2nd; 1.39- 3rd. 3.88 R&P. You pick 4th for easy cruise (.89) or even rev drop on upshift (.93).
I did the latter and cruise 75mph/3800rpm. Ricky usually pulls away from me on the freeways because of the easier .89 cruise rpm.
Gets rid of wall climbing 1st & too short 2nd. Even rev drops on 1-2-3 up shifts. Second becomes very usable in tight twisties.
Requires new 1/2 gear shaft in tranny, a $900 part.
Regearing the tranny & mounting the nose of the engine to the torsion housing were the biggest difference makers in the way the car drives.
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Re: Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

Postby duck944t » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:34 pm

Ralphc, did you actually mount the front of the motor solid or use an isolation mount?..and if you did go solid, did you make all your other mounts solid as well?...curious as to why that made a big difference in the car's handling.

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Re: Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

Postby Ralphc » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:13 pm

Universal case. Uses a urethane mount (white) u bolted to the torsion housing. Otherwise not solid mounted.
It eliminated the looseness; car feels tighter. I haven't quantified this, I can only say how it feels. My first reaction was that it felt like a "real" car. At first you really notice the buzz through the seat; but I don't notice now. Can't speak directly to handling as the car also runs a Z bar and front sway bar. I think the 4 point mount and z bar get the suspension loads to the chassis better.
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Re: Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

Postby DannyP » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:15 pm

Hey Mike, 23K on mine! Ralph, I have a solid trans strap and CB yellow Rhino mounts. I noticed the "buzz" when I first did it, but not anymore. Anyway, hard to quantify but definitely feels more connected to the road. Doesn't wander or feel a little uncertain like it used to.

And Larry is right about the Quaife/Torsen. It won't work with the 3.44. I could probably use one. When pushing the car really hard on uneven roads one tire does spin occasionally. Smooth, flat roads they both spin or they both grab.
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Re: Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

Postby SpyderMike » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:49 pm

Thanks folks...I appreciate the feedback! I think the 3:44 without Quaife but possibly with the taller 1st and 2nd might be in the cards. Nice winter project...
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Re: Old questions asked again - trans gearing and others

Postby SpyderMike » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:37 pm

okay, seven years later, here I am - asking again. I have on this winter's project list a new trans for the old car. I am planning to pull it out of the hangar and get it going again. I am just opening this old thread up to see if any opinions have shifted. I called Rancho this morning and got this as their recommendation:

Pro Drag setup
1st = 3.11
2nd = 1.93
3rd = 1.21
4th = 0.82
R&P = 3.88

I am not sure I really need the full Rhino case and Pro Drag performance given this is a southern Oregon back country scooter primarily at 30-60 mph range with some I-5 cruising at 75-80mph. The quoted around $4500. A bit more than I was thinking. Wondering if I can downgrade this recommendation a bit.

Are you all running Pro Drag gearboxes? Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated...

Mike
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