Exploding Oil Filter

Engines, Transmissions, running gear, etc.

Moderator: Larry Jowdy

Exploding Oil Filter

Postby Biker2 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:09 am

Soooo, after sitting most of the winter I decided to start up my Spyder last week. Fired right up but after idleing for about a minute I heard a loud POP. 10 seconds later the oil light came on. One nano-second later I turned the motor off.

Opened the rear clam and everything was covered in oil and my catch pan looks to have about 4 quarts in it. Checked for broken oil lines etc. and everything was intact. I noticed the oil filter was sitting at an odd angle to the filter mount and upon inspection the weld at the top of the filter burst.

Engine is a CB 2165 full flowed with a high volume oil pump, remote filter and front mounted cooler. Car is kept in a heated garage at 50 - 55 degrees. Outside Temp was 50 degrees that day. I was running 20-50 weight oil. Using WIX racing filters.

Anyone want to tell me/take a guess at what happened? I'm still cleaning up and deciding what to investigate/change.
Biker2
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 782
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:45 am
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Re: Exploding Oil Filter

Postby Larry Jowdy » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:42 am

It's not uncommon for a filter to explode if it's a non high pressure filter. Napa uses Wix filters so buy a 51515R Wix or NAPA 1515R Both will not explode. Typically on a non high pressure filter, it's the rubber gasket that fails.
Larry Jowdy
Site Administrator
User avatar
Larry Jowdy
Site Admin/Owner
Site Admin/Owner
 
Posts: 8409
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Ontario, California USA

Re: Exploding Oil Filter

Postby RS-60 mark » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:54 am

Wix 51515R? They are supposed to be pretty tough. That's what I use, also with 20/50 and all the same external oil routing you have, although with a Gene Berg 26mm pump. Never had a oil filter problem, even with previous years and years on Fram HP1 filters. What was the temperature in MI when you fired up?

Edit: Sorry Larry, I posted over the top of you. Yes, you have always taught us to use ONLY "racing" filters, which is surely why I have never had a filter problem.
User avatar
RS-60 mark
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 2932
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Windsor, California

Re: Exploding Oil Filter

Postby beck688 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:44 pm

Wix here always
Oh sh*t -- It was rocket science!
That's how my brain works. It's not a perfect organ.
User avatar
beck688
Old Timer
Old Timer
 
Posts: 1486
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:51 am
Location: Cumming Ga

Re: Exploding Oil Filter

Postby albaran » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:57 am

Now you guys have me worried. I'm using a Phram (which is supposed to be the worst) and I have a oil pressure gauge on it. On cold starts, I do see the pressure go up very high until it warms up. I thought that Wix was supposed to be a better filter but I didn't know there were high pressure versions. Do other brands have high pressure alternatives?
Attachments
spyderfilter.jpg
albaran
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 11:00 pm
Location: Stratford, Connecticut

Re: Exploding Oil Filter

Postby Larry Jowdy » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:11 pm

Wix is better. Fram (not Phram) is basically cardboard in a can. Every NAPA has WIX or can get them from their warehouse. WIX51515R. Wix makes NAPA filters so some NAPA stores may carry NAPA 1515R Exactly the same as the WIX
Larry Jowdy
Site Administrator
User avatar
Larry Jowdy
Site Admin/Owner
Site Admin/Owner
 
Posts: 8409
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Ontario, California USA

Re: Exploding Oil Filter

Postby RS-60 mark » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:48 pm

I buy my oil filter here: https://www.amazon.com/WIX-Filters-5151 ... oil+filter

Previously, and for years, I had been using the Fram HP1 "racing" filter because everyone's favorite (the Wix) wasn't as convenient to find. When my local Auto Zone stopped stocking the HP1 I fished on Amazon and there was the Wix! I bought 3, plus a case of Kendall GT1 20-50 HP and I'm done shopping for three Years. :D
User avatar
RS-60 mark
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 2932
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Windsor, California

Re: Exploding Oil Filter

Postby RBP » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:31 am

I've heard some with VW engines install the oil thermostat bypass between the engine and remote filter mount. That way the oil bypasses the filter and remote cooler till it warms up. Once the engine warms up there is full flow through the filter, then on to the remote cooler and back to the engine. Kind of makes sense to me as it would take a load off all the components in the oil system till the oil lightens up. I can't see where running without the filter for 10 minutes on warm up could cause any problems. I wonder if the engine internal oil ways can manage the high pressure ok. Anyone know about this? I'm looking at mounting my front cooler sometime this season and am considering this configuration.
Vintage, 2316 Type IV
User avatar
RBP
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 1088
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:45 am
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Exploding Oil Filter

Postby Larry Jowdy » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:42 am

The internals of the engine can stand high pressure. Personally I don't like the idea you posed but probably won't hurt. Most oil coolers are rated way higher than the oiling system can produce and if you use a WIX 51515R filter and quality braided steel lines with AN fittings then nothing is going to explode. Back when I was building high performance VW engines I used a thermostat to turn on an auxiliary oil cooler fan and all my engines were full flow. 99% of these engines were used in off road sand cars and NOTHING beats up an engine like running in the sand. All of the engines I built lived a good and productive life. The engines that failed were usually driver error induced such as over reviving the engine or not maintaining it properly. Running too lean to produce more HP was also a culprit as I usually set them up to be a bit rich. "Smart" owners or engine tuners (oxymoron statement) leaned them out to get maybe 5 more HP which in turn made the engines run hot and ultimately fail.
Larry Jowdy
Site Administrator
User avatar
Larry Jowdy
Site Admin/Owner
Site Admin/Owner
 
Posts: 8409
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Ontario, California USA

Re: Exploding Oil Filter

Postby RBP » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:30 am

Hi L, My parts consist of a new dual fan Derale 10 AN cooler to be mounted up front with an inline electric fan thermostat 10 AN to cycle the fans on at 180 and off at 165. I also have a 1/2" NPT to 10 AN oil flow temperature control switch to bypass the cooler till the oil temp reaches 180 deg. Is this overkill? I'm maybe also thinking just pipe everything without the switch. That way the oil will always flow through the entire system with the fans cycling when temp is above 180. Only bad thing will be the pressure drop / reduced flow when the engine is cold. Not like I run it with temperatures below 60 anyway. Do you think I'd be ok without the switch? I don't have a switch now but the lines are all in the back, short runs.
Vintage, 2316 Type IV
User avatar
RBP
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 1088
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:45 am
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Exploding Oil Filter

Postby Larry Jowdy » Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:44 am

Oil has a higher pressure when cold and obviously lower when hot. It doesn't take long for the oil to warm up regardless of the exterior temp's. If it were me, I'd run the oil through the filter at start up. Personally anything in the system is subject to failure and if the bypass fails then you don't have any oil cooling. Probably a very remote possibility that it will fail but don't forget that VW never had a filter but did have bypass valves to keep the oil from running through the cooler at start up. That way, when the oil heated up it opened the bypass valve and allowed the oil to be cooled by the fan attached to the back of the alternator/generator. It's a toss up and you'll get numerous answers to your question. I think I'd go with what ever is the easiest way to accomplish your task. If that means that the thermostat can be placed in the line without problems then go for it. If it proves to difficult to mount the thermostat than don't use it. Either way you'll be fine.
Larry Jowdy
Site Administrator
User avatar
Larry Jowdy
Site Admin/Owner
Site Admin/Owner
 
Posts: 8409
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Ontario, California USA

Re: Exploding Oil Filter

Postby RBP » Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:00 am

Ok, Thanks. I don't really have the room for the thermostat flow switch so was kind of thinking of not using it. Don't have it now with the shorter 8 AN lines so the slightly longer 10 AN lines should still be ok. I was concerned because once the cooler is up front the air flow through the cooler will be generated by the car movement regardless of oil temp. I have the cooler mounted fans just in case I'm stuck in traffic and need some flow to keep oil temp in check, the electric fan stat will cycle the fans on temp. If I'm out on a cold day it may take a while to warm up since the airflow through the cooler can't be stopped.
Vintage, 2316 Type IV
User avatar
RBP
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 1088
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:45 am
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Exploding Oil Filter

Postby Biker2 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:11 pm

Hi All, Thanks for all of the responses. I was/am running the Wix 51515R filter and the filter did split at the welded seam on the top of the filter after it distorted a lot, should have taken some pics. The temps were in the low 50's and as I said the car is stored in a heated garage at about 50 - 55 degrees.

In looking at a few VW books there is an oil bypass pressure relief valve in the oil system inside the cases. As I understand it this bypass valve is supposed to open on cold start if the oil pressure exceeds a certain threshold. Anyone think that could have stuck closed for some reason?

I called CB and they told me that 20-50 was too heavy an oil for their build and that I should switch to a lighter weight oil.

Supposed to snow here tomorrow, maybe up to 10 inches, but warm up into the high 60's by the weekend. Would like to try to start it again this weekend now that I have everything all cleaned up, and new filter installed. what weight oil would you try? Lighter weight?
Biker2
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 782
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:45 am
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Re: Exploding Oil Filter

Postby Larry Jowdy » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:33 pm

What did CB recommend for oil and for the weight of the oil? On the bottom of the engine case there are 2 large plugs with a slot for a large screwdriver, that's where the oil bypass pistons and springs are located.. Often times oversize springs are installed to increase oil pressure. Standard VW springs are all that's necessary. You can remove those plugs and with a magnet you can sometimes move the piston and see if either are stuck.

You may want to read this: http://www.geneberg.com/article.php?ArticleID=243
Larry Jowdy
Site Administrator
User avatar
Larry Jowdy
Site Admin/Owner
Site Admin/Owner
 
Posts: 8409
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 11:00 pm
Location: Ontario, California USA

Re: Exploding Oil Filter

Postby danstern » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:25 am

The sheet that came from CB with my 2109cc engine said 20-50 (Kendall). Its had 20-50 for 30,000 miles and seems OK.
Dan
Quantum Mechanic, Black Holes refilled, Quarks repaired
Vintage #74, 2109cc
User avatar
danstern
$$Donating Member$$
$$Donating Member$$
 
Posts: 1166
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:44 pm
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA

Next

Return to Tech Engines/Mechanical

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests