Here we go again, anyone seen Vintage Greg

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Re:

Postby prototype4 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:14 pm

Biker2 wrote:
snowback wrote:.....My neighbour's name is Peter and he hates spyders, and the noise they make!.....


Somehow that name seems entirely fitting of your neighbor....

Been watching this thread with interest. I can understand what everyone is saying on this board, including Proto and our new friend Cogito (I also hope you stick around).

But at the same time I agree 100% with Yama. I was somewhat taken aback by the initial approach, while still being very interested in the subject and discussion.

So, can't we all play/speak nice and get back to Spyders?

Wow, I am impressed.

United Nations here you come! :)
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Re:

Postby prototype4 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:19 pm

cam550 wrote:Cogito,
..............P.S. the previous paragraph is my poor attempt at replicating the writing style of Proto. ;-)

Oh don't do that. There is no known medical cure for it yet.

But taking a stab at your observation, I'd say that a replicar is not a replicar, is when the car is bonafide (think identity issue). The more faithful the construction using materials and methods, the less and less "replica-like" the construction becomes. But even if identical methods are used, anyone other than the firm Porsche, or authorized by Porsche will still produce a replicar (so true, good Leadfoot ;) ). Besides, some qualities the OEM 550 had, YOU DON"T WANT =; !
Now I emphisize the "concept philosophy" which drove Porsches' aspirations, and provides a transcendental pedigree independent of who made it. We all chose the 1950s incarnation to meditate on. Sooooooooo...............
We may now assume the lotus postion and chant the Type547 mantra,"pocka-pocka-pocka-pocka" alternating with"ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!" [-o<

:)
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Re:

Postby YamaBice » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:30 pm

prototype4 wrote:Now I emphisize the "concept philosophy" which drove Porsches' aspirations, and provides a transcendental pedigree independent of who made it. We all chose the 1950s incarnation to meditate on.
We may now assume the lotus postion and chant the Type547 mantra,"pocka-pocka-pocka-pocka" alternating with"ahhh".


OH, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!
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Re:

Postby prototype4 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:32 pm

YamaBice wrote:
prototype4 wrote:Now I emphisize the "concept philosophy" which drove Porsches' aspirations, and provides a transcendental pedigree independent of who made it. We all chose the 1950s incarnation to meditate on.
We may now assume the lotus postion and chant the Type547 mantra,"pocka-pocka-pocka-pocka" alternating with"ahhh".


OH, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

My devoted fan to the end.
In between watching my conceptual steps and grammer, I gotta cut loose occasionally.
Besides, you make the sounds. You know you do ;) .
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Re:

Postby gotowo » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:42 pm

prototype4 wrote:
cam550 wrote:Cogito,
..............P.S. the previous paragraph is my poor attempt at replicating the writing style of Proto. ;-)

Oh don't do that. There is no known medical cure for it yet.

But taking a stab at your observation, I'd say that a replicar is not a replicar, is when the car is bonafide (think identity issue). The more faithful the construction using materials and methods, the less and less "replica-like" the construction becomes. But even if identical methods are used, anyone other than the firm Porsche, or authorized by Porsche will still produce a replicar (so true, good Leadfoot ;) ). Besides, some qualities the OEM 550 had, YOU DON"T WANT =; !
Now I emphisize the "concept philosophy" which drove Porsches' aspirations, and provides a transcendental pedigree independent of who made it. We all chose the 1950s incarnation to meditate on.
We may now assume the lotus postion and chant the Type547 mantra,"pocka-pocka-pocka-pocka" alternating with"ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!" [-o<

:)


Image

Wot ya talkin' bout Willis???
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Re:

Postby prototype4 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:44 pm

gotowo wrote:
prototype4 wrote:
cam550 wrote:Cogito,
..............P.S. the previous paragraph is my poor attempt at replicating the writing style of Proto. ;-)

Oh don't do that. There is no known medical cure for it yet.

But taking a stab at your observation, I'd say that a replicar is not a replicar, is when the car is bonafide (think identity issue). The more faithful the construction using materials and methods, the less and less "replica-like" the construction becomes. But even if identical methods are used, anyone other than the firm Porsche, or authorized by Porsche will still produce a replicar (so true, good Leadfoot ;) ). Besides, some qualities the OEM 550 had, YOU DON"T WANT =; !
Now I emphisize the "concept philosophy" which drove Porsches' aspirations, and provides a transcendental pedigree independent of who made it. We all chose the 1950s incarnation to meditate on.
We may now assume the lotus postion and chant the Type547 mantra,"pocka-pocka-pocka-pocka" alternating with"ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!" [-o<

:)


Image

Wot ya talkin' bout Willis???

Like the Nike shoe ad campaign: Just do it.

Andrew, I can really see the Aborigine coming out in you. Delightful.
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Postby RS-60 mark » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:10 pm

Here I am!

I'm traveling (in WI) and off the site for a few days. Well, well. Haven't we been busy.

I agree with Cogito, a triangulated space frame is a better design than a ladder frame -- as appearantly I've stated to him sometime before. And, no one can intellegently argue his point.

I also agree with Cam. A 550 replica should have a ladder frame. If it didn't have a ladder frame it wouldn't be a very good replica.

Personally (and only personl preference) I think for the sake of \"replica\" the Beck design frame is the best \"replica\" 550.

The 550A can be another animial, and in that case a more faithful replica would be a space frame. But nobody is seriously targeting the 550A body shell shape with a faithful replica attemept anyway, so the \"replica\" space frame discussion is moot.

The truth is, cogito, the whole conversation about which frame is better is only academic because a monocoque or unibody is better than a space frame. So where is the line? Are disc brakes better than drums? But are disc brakes with ABS better than without? Again, where is the line? Is 200 hp better than 150 hp?

Technically the only one right answer to all of those questions should be obvious. But that answer is only right within the context of the question. Change the context and the answer changes. Ask: Is a ladder frame better in a 550 replica than a space frame? Then, to be period correct the only answer is a ladder frame.

Now cogito, get back on your keyboard and start racking-up your post count on spyderclub. Don't feel like you've been abused. And, don't feel like you have to walk on egg shells or worry about damaging anyone's sensitivities. Everyone on this board sqats to $hit, and some are free about sharing the stink. Don't hold back.

Welcome aboard.
Mark



So, cogiito, if you lke the space frame you can buy it in a period correct replica like a 904 or 906, or even a 917. Or, you can scratch build a correct 550A shaped body to go with a scratch built replica space frame.
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Postby cogito » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:48 pm

Well, I decided to tune back in at least one more time, and I am truly astonished about what my simple musings about chassis design have wrought. I am reminded of a great line from the movie, \"Roadhouse,\" spoken by the late Patrick Swayze, who after listening to a derisive comment from an adversary, deadpans in response, \"opinions vary.\"

We certainly have plenty of opinions, and that is not a bad thing. I was raised to respect the opinions of others. Hell, I don't even mind those of Goofycat (an interesting moinker -- eponymous, perhaps?), apparently this site's self-appointed Minister of Protocol, who after firing off a very personal rebuke, replete with obscure analogies (yes, Yamabice, Goofycat clearly has me beat in this category, and I am sure we would all like him to amplify on the source of his knowledge on how to behave in San Quentin) and warnings about the consequences for failing to show the obeisance required of newcomers, later has the temerity to deny there was anything personal in his remarks. Don't feel bad or worry about coming down too hard, Goofycat, I actually found your comments amusing. It would take a lot more than you've got to phase me.

Yamabice, I truly appreciate your learned critique of my and Prototpe's prose. It means a lot coming from a professional writer (I have published a bit myself), and I would like to read your stuff sometime. Perhaps I will get bored with F. Scott Fitzgerald and Bertrand Russell.

Larry -- thank you for your very kind and thoughful (sincerely) message. Just a suggestion -- as the site Administrator, perhaps you should consider publishing Goofycat's \"Rules for Newcomers,\" so future joining members will not commit the same faux pas as I.

Prototype4 -- what can I say, I like your style. Direct and erudite. Perhaps we should create our own site.

For everyone else -- it has been a slice. Like me or hate me, I'll wager this site has not been so much fun on this site in years!

Cheers,

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Postby cogito » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:16 pm

Thanks, Mark. I appreciate you weighing in. All your comments are, of course, valid and very well considered. Regarding the hierarchy of preferences for chassis, I of course agree that a monocoque, or some combination of monocoque and space frame, would be ideal (though actually, probably only carbon fiber would have the strength-to-weight ratio of a well-designed space frame), but I mentioned in one of my previous posts those would not be very cost-effective in a replicar, though I am aware that some very high-end makers are taking that approach for GT-40 and other supercar replicas.

Obviously there is room for great diversity of opinion on this subject, and I respect those that want to maintain as authentic a replication as possible of the original cars, but there are others like myself who would prefer to incorporate modern, performance-based upgrades, while still maintaining the cache of the original Spyders. To me, a knock-off of the 550A chassis, such as I seem to recall you have in your RS 60, makes great sense in even a 550 replica, but that is just me. I recognize that others see things differently.

Once again, Mark, thanks for your contribution to the discussion. Your writing style and demeanor is commendable, as I recall was also the case when we corresponded briefly a couple of years ago.

Regards,

Peter
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Re:

Postby prototype4 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:21 pm

cogito wrote:............Prototype4 -- what can I say, I like your style. Direct and erudite. Perhaps we should create our own site.


Mucho Gusto! :) But I am a mere echo of our mandarin speaking clown prince of high-jinx, SIMONSTER
(Where has that reprobate gotten to anyway? Hardly a squeak from him.)

See Yama. He likes me! So there is an accounting for good taste, after all [8D] .
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Postby D_Man » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:26 pm

You people have hi-jacked my thread, I dont get it. Everyone wants to compare a fiberglass replica to the real thing. No comparison other than the exterior shape will there ever be. If some one wants a real \"true in every aspect\" copy there are people that can build it if you can afford it.

D [xx(]
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Re:

Postby prototype4 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:41 pm

D_Man wrote:You people have hi-jacked my thread, I dont get it. Everyone wants to compare a fiberglass replica to the real thing. No comparison other than the exterior shape will there ever be. If some one wants a real "true in every aspect" copy there are people that can build it if you can afford it.

D [xx(]

I thought the topic was where Greg Leach (the Tony Stark of the 550 replicar biz) had nipped off to.
But, addressing your premise, scanning equipment to topologically document existing body examples is the only practical direction. I suggest this because institutions or private owners are less likely to casually allow dismantlement for measurements due to the collectable value.
From software analysis, it would be possible to produce faithful forms to run small mass-production fiberglass body parts.
The more extravegant route (and in todays world economics rather unlikely for most of us) is to employ highly skilled sheetmetal artisans. They are out there, and I can't hire them (crappers! :( ). Perhaps your thread will generate an impetus for assemblers to believe in and follow-up on a market demand for that kind of fidelity (I hope).
Regarding all the other little features that makes up the car, that is the part that you will be a part of intimately (check out the previous posting I made about Porsche design philosophy). Your car is your automotive incarnation; your chance to "get it right". How are you feeling about it :-k ?


Spiritual acoustic imagery GOTOWO provided for the faithful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuWibQYN ... r_embedded
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Postby gotowo » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:29 pm

After all this time, doesn't everyone have a full set of 3D scans of an original 550 to start getting these replicas right??? ;)

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just like assembling a real one... one piece at a time!
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Postby prototype4 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:33 pm

Your'e on the right track, Andrew! One set of 3-d wireframes or solids for me puh-lease!
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Postby gotowo » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:43 pm

Lot of work to do - had to scan 2 consecutive originals to make sure discrepancies from accidents and modifications were eliminated...
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